Rackmount Sun Hardware

Post by BN
I am looking for a PC with a rack mount chassis that can handle 4 IDE or
SATA drives internally with a CDROM and floppy. It should have or
accommodate SATARAID or IDERAID (mainly for mirroring) (not software
raid) and gigabit Ethernet. I intend to run SAMBA and postfix. Anything

Why not SW RAID? Unless you're talking about RAID 5, SW RAID isn't
that bad...

Post by BN
cheap would be ideal.

SAMBA?!

Right now, the only Sun box that meets your needs is the V40z, but it's
not cheap. A V20z + external drive array would probably be cheaper.

--
Rich Teer, SCNA, SCSA, OpenSolaris CAB member

President,
Rite Online Inc.

Voice: +1 (250) 979-1638
URL: http://www.rite-group.com/rich

2005-08-30 19:28:21 UTC

Why not SW RAID? Unless you're talking about RAID 5, SW RAID isn't
that bad...

Software raid is too unreliable. You have to use a flooopy to boot up if
the SECONDARY (non-boot)drive in a IDE or SCSI chain (mirrored setup)
goes bad.

I rather let the controller handle everything including finding the good
drive in a mirror to boot from .

Post by BN
cheap would be ideal.

SAMBA?!
Right now, the only Sun box that meets your needs is the V40z, but it's
not cheap. A V20z + external drive array would probably be cheaper.

What do you suggest for an external drive array?

Dan Foster

2005-08-30 19:40:51 UTC

Post by Rich Teer
Why not SW RAID? Unless you're talking about RAID 5, SW RAID isn't
that bad...

Software raid is too unreliable. You have to use a flooopy to boot up
if the SECONDARY (non-boot)drive in a IDE or SCSI chain (mirrored
setup) goes bad.

Not with Solaris 10 on the V20Z.

Tested, and didn't need a floppy to boot off the opposite mirror half
when either half had "gone bad".

-Dan

Frank Cusack

2005-08-30 19:54:54 UTC

Post by Dan Foster

Post by Rich Teer
Why not SW RAID? Unless you're talking about RAID 5, SW RAID isn't
that bad...

Software raid is too unreliable. You have to use a flooopy to boot up
if the SECONDARY (non-boot)drive in a IDE or SCSI chain (mirrored
setup) goes bad.

Not with Solaris 10 on the V20Z.

Not with any Solaris on any hardware.

It's only if the primary drive fails, and then only in certain ways,
that you may need special procedures to boot. But you never need
a floppy.

-frank

Rich Teer

2005-08-30 21:23:16 UTC

Post by BN
Software raid is too unreliable. You have to use a flooopy to boot up if
the SECONDARY (non-boot)drive in a IDE or SCSI chain (mirrored setup)
goes bad.

Dunno where you got that idea, because it simply isn't true. Where
I'm on contract right now, we have hundreds of machines using SW
RAID mirroring for their root disks. It hasn't caused us any problems
when a disks let their magic smoke escape.

Post by Rich Teer
Right now, the only Sun box that meets your needs is the V40z, but it's
not cheap. A V20z + external drive array would probably be cheaper.

What do you suggest for an external drive array?

I guess the main question is how much storage space do you need?
Sticking with Sun stuff, the 3120 might be a good choice: it's a
1U array that holds up to 4 hot-swappable (SCSI) disks. A nice
array, but IMHO a bit pricey for what amounts to a box + PSU(s) +
disks. But I like Sun stuff, so I'm considering getting one.

--
Rich Teer, SCNA, SCSA, OpenSolaris CAB member

President,
Rite Online Inc.

Voice: +1 (250) 979-1638
URL: http://www.rite-group.com/rich

Bernd Haug

2005-08-30 22:06:54 UTC

Post by Rich Teer
I guess the main question is how much storage space do you need?
Sticking with Sun stuff, the 3120 might be a good choice: it's a
1U array that holds up to 4 hot-swappable (SCSI) disks. A nice
array, but IMHO a bit pricey for what amounts to a box + PSU(s) +
disks. But I like Sun stuff, so I'm considering getting one.

Bit pricey?

USD 5000 @ 146G @ 2 disks (raw w/o RAID) for SCSI/SCSI w/ max 4 Disks
-> 2 more disks fit

Apple Xserve RAID:
USD 6000 @ 1TB @ for disks (raw w/o RAID) for FC/SATA w/
-> 10 more disks fit

Methinks, there is place for the price of an FC HBA somewhere in there.

Question is more of whether to buy Apple storage for non-Apple servers,
as the management goodness fades pretty quickly if you don't stay within
the cult completely. ;)

lg, Bernd

--
When emailing me, excuse my annoing spamfilter - it works for me.

Bernd Haug

2005-08-30 22:11:57 UTC

Bit pricey?

USD 5000 @ 146G @ 2 disks (raw w/o RAID) for SCSI/SCSI w/ max 4 Disks
-> 2 more disks fit

Apple Xserve RAID:
USD 6000 @ 1TB @ 4 disks (raw w/o RAID) for FC/SATA w/
-> 10 more disks fit

Methinks, there is place for the price of an FC HBA somewhere in there.

Question is more of whether to buy Apple storage for non-Apple servers,
as the management goodness fades pretty quickly if you don't stay within
the cult completely. ;)

lg, Bernd

--
When emailing me, excuse my annoing spamfilter - it works for me.

Jeroen Besse

2005-08-30 23:20:15 UTC

Why not SW RAID? Unless you're talking about RAID 5, SW RAID isn't
that bad...

Software raid is too unreliable. You have to use a flooopy to boot up if
the SECONDARY (non-boot)drive in a IDE or SCSI chain (mirrored setup)
goes bad.

With Disksuite, you can prevent this by adding the line:
set md:mirrored_root_flag=1
to /etc/system. Tested on Solaris 9: I can boot with either of the two
disks removed.

--
Best regards,
Jeroen Besse
(to contact me: the nospam address actually exists)

Darren Dunham

2005-08-31 16:17:20 UTC

Post by Jeroen Besse
set md:mirrored_root_flag=1
to /etc/system. Tested on Solaris 9: I can boot with either of the two
disks removed.

I had assumed the OP was talking about mirroring between an IDE master
and IDE slave on the same channel. In such cases, failures of the
master drive can leave the slave unable to work. There's a note in some
of the SDS documentation about that.

I would always move the drives so that the mirrors were the master
drives on separate channels.

--
Darren Dunham ***@taos.com
Senior Technical Consultant TAOS http://www.taos.com/
Got some Dr Pepper? San Francisco, CA bay area
< This line left intentionally blank to confuse you. >

Frank Cusack

2005-08-31 18:59:33 UTC

Post by Darren Dunham

Post by Jeroen Besse
set md:mirrored_root_flag=1
to /etc/system. Tested on Solaris 9: I can boot with either of the two
disks removed.

The OP mentioned a problem if the SECONDARY (OP's emphasis) drive failed.
If indeed he meant IDE slave, that's different than what you are saying.

I assumed he simply meant non-boot drive, since he mentioned SCSI in
the same breath. (And in mirrored setups, there isn't a primary and
secondary drive; rather, they are equivalent.)

-frank

James Sweet

2005-09-01 04:32:20 UTC

If you want cheap you've come to the wrong place. Sun hardware is cool, but
it's never been cheap.

Rich Teer

2005-09-01 15:19:53 UTC

Post by James Sweet
If you want cheap you've come to the wrong place. Sun hardware is cool, but
it's never been cheap.

I dunno about that (especially when compared to other name brand vendors).
Take, for instance, the Ultra 20: $895 starting price, or FREE if you bu
a 3 year service contract. You cna't get much cheaper than free! :-)

--
Rich Teer, SCNA, SCSA, OpenSolaris CAB member

President,
Rite Online Inc.

Voice: +1 (250) 979-1638
URL: http://www.rite-group.com/rich

James Sweet

2005-09-02 05:02:51 UTC

Post by James Sweet
If you want cheap you've come to the wrong place. Sun hardware is cool, but
it's never been cheap.

Perhaps it's had to come down a lot to compete with cheap PC's. I was a bit
shocked when I looked at the original price of my SS20, something like $25K
as configured, ouch!

Rich Teer

2005-09-02 15:50:33 UTC

Post by James Sweet
Perhaps it's had to come down a lot to compete with cheap PC's. I was a bit

It has.

Post by James Sweet
shocked when I looked at the original price of my SS20, something like $25K
as configured, ouch!

Indeed! But then, consider its specs for the time: could one even purchase
a PC that could have four CPUs and 512 MB of RAM back in those days? I doubt
it...

--
Rich Teer, SCNA, SCSA, OpenSolaris CAB member

President,
Rite Online Inc.

Voice: +1 (250) 979-1638
URL: http://www.rite-group.com/rich

CJT

2005-09-02 21:10:28 UTC

Post by James Sweet
Perhaps it's had to come down a lot to compete with cheap PC's. I was a bit

It has.

Post by James Sweet
shocked when I looked at the original price of my SS20, something like $25K
as configured, ouch!

Indeed! But then, consider its specs for the time: could one even purchase
a PC that could have four CPUs and 512 MB of RAM back in those days? I doubt
it...

Can one now?

--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form ***@prodigy.net.

Dimitri Maziuk

2005-09-02 22:26:57 UTC

Post by James Sweet
Perhaps it's had to come down a lot to compete with cheap PC's. I was a bit

It has.

Post by James Sweet
shocked when I looked at the original price of my SS20, something like $25K
as configured, ouch!

Indeed! But then, consider its specs for the time: could one even purchase
a PC that could have four CPUs and 512 MB of RAM back in those days? I doubt
it...

Can one now?

I can understand 0.5GB RAM, but why would one want 200MHz CPUs now?

Dima

--
The wombat is a mixture of chalk and clay used for respiration. -- MegaHal

CJT

2005-09-03 01:18:05 UTC

Post by Dimitri Maziuk

Post by James Sweet
Perhaps it's had to come down a lot to compete with cheap PC's. I was a bit

It has.

Post by James Sweet
shocked when I looked at the original price of my SS20, something like $25K
as configured, ouch!

Indeed! But then, consider its specs for the time: could one even purchase
a PC that could have four CPUs and 512 MB of RAM back in those days? I doubt
it...

Can one now?

I can understand 0.5GB RAM, but why would one want 200MHz CPUs now?
Dima

Find me a PC that'll take four of ANY speed.

--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form ***@prodigy.net.

James Sweet

2005-09-03 01:37:18 UTC

Post by CJT
Find me a PC that'll take four of ANY speed.

A friend of mine has an old Compaq PC with four Pentium Pro 200 CPUs,
granted it's technically a server but it runs Windows NT. Tyan amoung others
makes a quad Xeon motherboard that will fit in a standard ATX case. I'm
pretty sure the standard Pentium/II/III series will only support up to two
CPUs though.

Jim Carver

2005-09-03 03:55:07 UTC

CJT wrote:
SNIP!

Post by CJT
Find me a PC that'll take four of ANY speed.

http://www.tyan.com/products/html/opteron.html

A certain chip maker in Idaho loves this board.........

Dimitri Maziuk

2005-09-03 18:32:32 UTC

Post by Dimitri Maziuk

Post by James Sweet
Perhaps it's had to come down a lot to compete with cheap PC's. I was a bit

It has.

Post by James Sweet
shocked when I looked at the original price of my SS20, something like $25K
as configured, ouch!

Indeed! But then, consider its specs for the time: could one even purchase
a PC that could have four CPUs and 512 MB of RAM back in those days? I doubt
it...

Can one now?

I can understand 0.5GB RAM, but why would one want 200MHz CPUs now?
Dima

Find me a PC that'll take four of ANY speed.

Sounds like you don't know much about peecees, then. 4-way was available
since at least PPro, now there's at least one 8-way opteron board out
there (IWILL) and plenty of quad boards for both AMD and Intel chips.

Either that or your definition of "PC" is limited to "Dude, you're getting
a home pc" kind of system that rarely comes with > 1 CPU.

Dima

--
We're sysadmins. Sanity happens to other people. -- Chris King

James Sweet

2005-09-03 01:33:53 UTC

Post by James Sweet
Perhaps it's had to come down a lot to compete with cheap PC's. I was a bit

It has.

Post by James Sweet
shocked when I looked at the original price of my SS20, something like $25K
as configured, ouch!

Indeed! But then, consider its specs for the time: could one even purchase
a PC that could have four CPUs and 512 MB of RAM back in those days? I doubt
it...

This has two CPUs and 64MB, though I don't have the 21" monitor that would
have come with it for that price. IIRC the best PC available at the time was
a dual pentium of some sort, I remember I had a P60 which seemed fast back
then.

Paul Brown

2005-09-16 15:11:18 UTC

Post by James Sweet
Perhaps it's had to come down a lot to compete with cheap PC's. I was a

bit

Post by Rich Teer
It has.

Post by James Sweet
shocked when I looked at the original price of my SS20, something like

$25K