Ultra 5/10 vs Ultra 60 for workstation.

[Dave (from the UK)]

I am looking to get a *cheap* ultra based workstation to mess about
with. Considering the Ultra 5/10 or 60. Any thoughts about the relative
merits of the two?

The Ultra 5/10 has the advantage of large cheap disks, although I
probably have a 36 GB disk I can use and have a mate who can often get
me a freebie 36 GB disk, so the more expensive SCSI disks are not such a
disadvantage.

Just interested in other comments about the two machines for a second
workstation. I have a quad processor U80 as a main machine.

If anyone in the UK has one, or a similar box (might consider a U30),
let me know.

[J.O. Aho]

Post by Dave (from the UK)
I am looking to get a *cheap* ultra based workstation to mess about
with. Considering the Ultra 5/10 or 60. Any thoughts about the relative
merits of the two?
The Ultra 5/10 has the advantage of large cheap disks, although I
probably have a 36 GB disk I can use and have a mate who can often get
me a freebie 36 GB disk, so the more expensive SCSI disks are not such a
disadvantage.

U5/10 uses IDE.

U60 can have dual CPU configuration, which you can't on U5/10.
UPA on the U60 seems to work okey under linux, which UPA on the U5/10 don't.
You can hook up more RAM to the U60.

If you can get a U60 for cheap, I would suggest you would go for that one, you
can get a bit more performance from it than from the U5/10. Harddrives will be
more expensive, but don't think you are limited to small harddrives as you are
on the IDE of U5/10.


//Aho

[Casper H.S. Dik]

Post by J.O. Aho
U60 can have dual CPU configuration, which you can't on U5/10.
UPA on the U60 seems to work okey under linux, which UPA on the U5/10 don't.
You can hook up more RAM to the U60.

On the downside, the Ultra 60 makes a lot more noise than the U5/10.

Casper

[J.O. Aho]

Post by Casper H.S. Dik

Post by J.O. Aho
U60 can have dual CPU configuration, which you can't on U5/10.
UPA on the U60 seems to work okey under linux, which UPA on the U5/10 don't.
You can hook up more RAM to the U60.

On the downside, the Ultra 60 makes a lot more noise than the U5/10.

You can't say that U5/10 is a quiet machine, it's more noisy than most
machines, not made for desktop use, but hidden into a computer hall to spare
the ears of the users.

I have exchanged the Sun-PSU to a quiet PersonalComputer-PSU, still not
exchanged the front panel fan, but that is next and then I will have got it
down to 20dB(A) and will just be 2dB(A) more loud than my current server.

The same trick can be done on the U60.


//Aho

[Dave (from the UK)]

Post by J.O. Aho
You can't say that U5/10 is a quiet machine, it's more noisy than most
machines, not made for desktop use, but hidden into a computer hall to spare
the ears of the users.
I have exchanged the Sun-PSU to a quiet PersonalComputer-PSU, still not
exchanged the front panel fan, but that is next and then I will have got it
down to 20dB(A) and will just be 2dB(A) more loud than my current server.
The same trick can be done on the U60.
//Aho

You will need to watch the airflow though.

The flow rate in free air, which is marked on fans, bears little
resemblence to what flow you get when you restrict the fan. So just
because two fans are marked with the same free air flow rate, means next
to nothing.

The noise from fans is mainly due to the movement of air.

All fans have a pressure/flow curve. In free air, the flow is highest,
but as you increase the back pressure, so the flow drops. And it drops a
*lot*.

I have a large fan in something I built. The fan has a free-air flow
rate of about 1500 cubic feet per minute, but it does to about 300 cfm
when it is obstructed with the valve it is cooling. That fan uses 2.8 kW
of power!!

[J.O. Aho]

Post by Dave (from the UK)
You will need to watch the airflow though.

Use of bigger fans, if you can't keep up with the original airflow.

Post by Dave (from the UK)
The flow rate in free air, which is marked on fans, bears little
resemblence to what flow you get when you restrict the fan. So just
because two fans are marked with the same free air flow rate, means next
to nothing.
The noise from fans is mainly due to the movement of air.

The kind of fan makes different, specially how the axel is connected.

Post by Dave (from the UK)
All fans have a pressure/flow curve. In free air, the flow is highest,
but as you increase the back pressure, so the flow drops. And it drops a
*lot*.

Keep in mind this affects the original fan too and fans that has been working
for many ears already are often a lot more noisy due the worn out.


//Aho

[Torsten Kirschner]

Post by Casper H.S. Dik

Post by J.O. Aho
U60 can have dual CPU configuration, which you can't on U5/10.
UPA on the U60 seems to work okey under linux, which UPA on the U5/10 don't.
You can hook up more RAM to the U60.

On the downside, the Ultra 60 makes a lot more noise than the U5/10.
Casper

I beg to differ. In my office I have both an U60, an U5 and a MultiPac.
The MultiPac makes the most noise and will have to go as soon as I can boot
the U60 off ZFS.
The U5 is still noisier than the U60, which suprised me. Actually, my U60
might have a noise reduction kit installed as it makes virtually no noise
at all, comparable to modern office desktops. It does, however, output
quite a bit of heat.

Today, I'd say that a maxed-out U60 is the smallest Sun workstation to get
actual work done. An (again, maxed-out) U5/10 is still OK as a desktop, but
I have to run all but the trivial applications remote on bigger servers.

BTW, if anyone has a maxed-out U80, E4500 or A5200 to sell cheaply, I'd be
interested. :)

ps. "Huey, I just don't think I belong in this new world. I don't know if I
need the 20 gig iPod or the 40 gig..." 'Dr. Martin Luther King jr.' in The
Boondocks.

[VinnyC]

I know I"m on the wrong side of the pond, but I have all the Ultra 60's
you could ever use, cheap.

Ultra 60/450Mhz/1Gb Memory/ 18Gb Disk,/C3D $300

Other Configs avail

Post by Dave (from the UK)
I am looking to get a *cheap* ultra based workstation to mess about
with. Considering the Ultra 5/10 or 60. Any thoughts about the relative
merits of the two?
The Ultra 5/10 has the advantage of large cheap disks, although I
probably have a 36 GB disk I can use and have a mate who can often get
me a freebie 36 GB disk, so the more expensive SCSI disks are not such a
disadvantage.
Just interested in other comments about the two machines for a second
workstation. I have a quad processor U80 as a main machine.
If anyone in the UK has one, or a similar box (might consider a U30),
let me know.
--
Dave K
http://www.southminster-branch-line.org.uk/
Please note my email address changes periodically to avoid spam.
for a couple of months only. Later set it manually. The month is
always written in 3 letters (e.g. Jan, not January etc)

[Dave (from the UK)]

Post by VinnyC
I know I"m on the wrong side of the pond, but I have all the Ultra 60's
you could ever use, cheap.
Ultra 60/450Mhz/1Gb Memory/ 18Gb Disk,/C3D $300

That is far from cheap!! I've seen a similar one in the UK, but without
the CD, for half that price.

[Dave (from the UK)]

Post by VinnyC
I know I"m on the wrong side of the pond, but I have all the Ultra 60's
you could ever use, cheap.
Ultra 60/450Mhz/1Gb Memory/ 18Gb Disk,/C3D $300

For what it is worth, I have just bought an Ultra 60 is the UK for £60
or about $106.

Same spec as the one you are offering, except mine has no CD, but does
have a floppy. I admit a CD is more useful, but perhaps not nearly $200
more useful!

Prices seems to have equalised a bit now between the UK and US. At one
time there were *big* savings to be made by importing from the US, but
that seems to have ceased - at least on the sort of machines I might buy.

[Steve]

On 2006-01-16 17:11:53 +0000, "Dave (from the UK)"

Post by Dave (from the UK)
I am looking to get a *cheap* ultra based workstation to mess about
with. Considering the Ultra 5/10 or 60. Any thoughts about the relative
merits of the two?
The Ultra 5/10 has the advantage of large cheap disks, although I
probably have a 36 GB disk I can use and have a mate who can often get
me a freebie 36 GB disk, so the more expensive SCSI disks are not such
a disadvantage.
Just interested in other comments about the two machines for a second
workstation. I have a quad processor U80 as a main machine.
If anyone in the UK has one, or a similar box (might consider a U30),
let me know.

I'm in UK, and I got an Ultra 60 (2x360's - 1536mb) and and Ultra 30
(300 - 512mb) and I'm looking so say goodbye to them to finance the
rebuiding of four bare E450's I just got 99p (really!)

Mind u - the memory wll go into the E450, funny really when u see U60's
cheap and memory higher.......

Ste

[h***@aracnet.com]

Post by Dave (from the UK)
I am looking to get a *cheap* ultra based workstation to mess about
with. Considering the Ultra 5/10 or 60. Any thoughts about the relative
merits of the two?

The IDE Disk performance on the Ultra 5/10 is pathetic. They can take less
RAM, and only one CPU. Plus, it is easier to get RAM for an U60, than for
a U5/10.

To bad cheap is a requirement. I'd really recommend a Sunblade 1000.

Zane

[Dave (from the UK)]

Post by h***@aracnet.com

Post by Dave (from the UK)
I am looking to get a *cheap* ultra based workstation to mess about
with. Considering the Ultra 5/10 or 60. Any thoughts about the relative
merits of the two?

The IDE Disk performance on the Ultra 5/10 is pathetic. They can take less
RAM, and only one CPU. Plus, it is easier to get RAM for an U60, than for
a U5/10.

Cheers. I did actually buy a U 60 in the end - 1 GB of RAM, 18 GB disk,
floppy, one 450 MHz CPU. I paid £60 (UK pounds) which is about $107.

Post by h***@aracnet.com
To bad cheap is a requirement.

Being unemployed rather makes that a requirement!!

Post by h***@aracnet.com
I'd really recommend a Sunblade 1000.

I was actually quite surprised how little they are going for.

Post by h***@aracnet.com
Zane

[c***@gmail.com]

Post by Dave (from the UK)

Post by h***@aracnet.com
To bad cheap is a requirement.

Being unemployed rather makes that a requirement!!

Sorry to hear that. I'm in the same situation at the moment, apart from
doing a bit of trade in random technical surplus, hence the need to
economise when repairing or replacing my Ultra 2. I had an e-mail from
a guy about an Ultra 2 today. Looks in nice condition. I'm hoping I
might be able to negotiate a deal of £50 + VAT for the machine with 2
x 400 MHz, 2 x 9 GB and 512 MB RAM. I'm tending towards another Ultra 2
as I think it'll be the most economical and trouble free replacement.
An Ultra 60 would be nice but I don't really need the extra power or
PCI, but I do need two SCSI controllers as I have now. I'll probably
make a decision tomorrow or Saturday. Will let you know what I choose.

Best wishes,

Chris

[Dave (from the UK)]

Post by c***@gmail.com

Post by Dave (from the UK)

Post by h***@aracnet.com
To bad cheap is a requirement.

Being unemployed rather makes that a requirement!!

Sorry to hear that. I'm in the same situation at the moment,

I think my problem is I have a PhD - I think I'll remove that from my CV.

Post by c***@gmail.com
apart from
doing a bit of trade in random technical surplus, hence the need to
economise when repairing or replacing my Ultra 2.

Sure.

Post by c***@gmail.com
I had an e-mail from
a guy about an Ultra 2 today. Looks in nice condition. I'm hoping I
might be able to negotiate a deal of £50 + VAT for the machine with 2
x 400 MHz, 2 x 9 GB and 512 MB RAM.

Not a bad deal it must be said, but I can't help but feel you could get
a better deal on a U60 for not much more.

Post by c***@gmail.com
I'm tending towards another Ultra 2
as I think it'll be the most economical and trouble free replacement.
An Ultra 60 would be nice but I don't really need the extra power or
PCI, but I do need two SCSI controllers as I have now.

The Ultra 60 has two built in. The one doing the disks/tape/cd etc
inside the case is on a different bus to the connector on the back of
the machine.

If you wanted even more, I had a spare dual Sun SCSI controller and a
single channel IBM SCSI controller here. The IBM uses the same chipset
as on of the Sun cards. In fact, I have an almost identical IBM card,
except it is HVD that I use for controlling the StoreEDGE L9 tape backup
system.

Post by c***@gmail.com
I'll probably
make a decision tomorrow or Saturday. Will let you know what I choose.

I'd personally go for a U60. A second processor if you want it will not
cost you much.

Of course there are a lot of things to consider. Noise being one of
them. As Casper pointed out the other day, a U60 is noiser than a U5 or
U 10. I have no idea where the Ultra 2 fits in along the noise scale.

[Sunny]

Post by Dave (from the UK)

Post by c***@gmail.com

Post by Dave (from the UK)

Post by h***@aracnet.com
To bad cheap is a requirement.

Being unemployed rather makes that a requirement!!

Sorry to hear that. I'm in the same situation at the moment,

I think my problem is I have a PhD - I think I'll remove that from my CV.

Post by c***@gmail.com
apart from
doing a bit of trade in random technical surplus, hence the need to
economise when repairing or replacing my Ultra 2.

Sure.

Post by c***@gmail.com
I had an e-mail from
a guy about an Ultra 2 today. Looks in nice condition. I'm hoping I
might be able to negotiate a deal of £50 + VAT for the machine with 2
x 400 MHz, 2 x 9 GB and 512 MB RAM.

Not a bad deal it must be said, but I can't help but feel you could get
a better deal on a U60 for not much more.

Post by c***@gmail.com
I'm tending towards another Ultra 2
as I think it'll be the most economical and trouble free replacement.
An Ultra 60 would be nice but I don't really need the extra power or
PCI, but I do need two SCSI controllers as I have now.

The Ultra 60 has two built in. The one doing the disks/tape/cd etc
inside the case is on a different bus to the connector on the back of
the machine.
If you wanted even more, I had a spare dual Sun SCSI controller and a
single channel IBM SCSI controller here. The IBM uses the same chipset
as on of the Sun cards. In fact, I have an almost identical IBM card,
except it is HVD that I use for controlling the StoreEDGE L9 tape backup
system.

Post by c***@gmail.com
I'll probably
make a decision tomorrow or Saturday. Will let you know what I choose.

I'd personally go for a U60. A second processor if you want it will not
cost you much.
Of course there are a lot of things to consider. Noise being one of
them. As Casper pointed out the other day, a U60 is noiser than a U5 or
U 10. I have no idea where the Ultra 2 fits in along the noise scale.

Quieter than any of the above.

Sunny

[c***@gmail.com]

Post by Dave (from the UK)

Post by c***@gmail.com
I had an e-mail from
a guy about an Ultra 2 today. Looks in nice condition. I'm hoping I
might be able to negotiate a deal of £50 + VAT for the machine with 2
x 400 MHz, 2 x 9 GB and 512 MB RAM.

Not a bad deal it must be said, but I can't help but feel you could get
a better deal on a U60 for not much more.

Unfortunately the deal has fallen through. He advertised the U2 on eBay
with a single processor and a starting bid of £50. No one bid, and the
listing said he had plenty of Sun spares in stock, so I e-mailed and
made an offer of £50 + £20 carriage + VAT for the machine if he added
a second processor. I thought he might get back to me with a price of
£60-65, which I'd probably have taken, but he wants £100. He didn't
seem especially keen to sell. Unix4Less have U60's for sale at £110 +
£12.50 carriage + VAT, which is pretty much the same price. These are
dual 450 MHz, 512 MB RAM and 2 x 9 GB. The 512 MB of RAM doesn't bother
me as I can take the 1280 MB from my U2, plus I probably don't need
more than 512 MB. I am tempted by these machines, although they are
right at the top of my price range.

Post by Dave (from the UK)

Post by c***@gmail.com
I'm tending towards another Ultra 2
as I think it'll be the most economical and trouble free replacement.
An Ultra 60 would be nice but I don't really need the extra power or
PCI, but I do need two SCSI controllers as I have now.

The Ultra 60 has two built in. The one doing the disks/tape/cd etc
inside the case is on a different bus to the connector on the back of
the machine.
If you wanted even more, I had a spare dual Sun SCSI controller and a
single channel IBM SCSI controller here. The IBM uses the same chipset
as on of the Sun cards. In fact, I have an almost identical IBM card,
except it is HVD that I use for controlling the StoreEDGE L9 tape backup
system.

I just remembered that I have a Symbios SYM8751SP SCSI card which I
salvaged from a scrap PC a couple of years ago. Doing a Google search
leads me to believe that this is the same as Sun part number X5010A,
although I'm unsure how easy it would be to get it working.

Post by Dave (from the UK)

Post by c***@gmail.com
I'll probably
make a decision tomorrow or Saturday. Will let you know what I choose.

I'd personally go for a U60. A second processor if you want it will not
cost you much.
Of course there are a lot of things to consider. Noise being one of
them. As Casper pointed out the other day, a U60 is noiser than a U5 or
U 10. I have no idea where the Ultra 2 fits in along the noise scale.

In my experience the U2 is a pretty noisy beast. It has four fans. The
U60 I tried out last year seemed comparable. The U5s and U10s I used in
the States a few years back seemed quieter, although they were in much
larger rooms. Noise doesn't bother me too much.

Best wishes,

Chris

[Dave (from the UK)]

Post by c***@gmail.com

Post by Dave (from the UK)
Not a bad deal it must be said, but I can't help but feel you could get
a better deal on a U60 for not much more.

Unfortunately the deal has fallen through. He advertised the U2 on eBay
with a single processor and a starting bid of £50. No one bid, and the
listing said he had plenty of Sun spares in stock, so I e-mailed and
made an offer of £50 + £20 carriage + VAT for the machine if he added
a second processor. I thought he might get back to me with a price of
£60-65, which I'd probably have taken, but he wants £100. He didn't
seem especially keen to sell. Unix4Less have U60's for sale at £110 +
£12.50 carriage + VAT, which is pretty much the same price.

Did you try the place I told you I bought my U 60 from?

I believe they have 2 more and I paid £60 + carriage and VAT with one
CPU 450 MHz CPU, 18 GB disk, 1 GB RAM and floppy.

Post by c***@gmail.com
These are
dual 450 MHz, 512 MB RAM and 2 x 9 GB.

That seems a pretty good spe for £110. And you have two spud brackets,
which are worth £10 each anyway. The brackets are probably worth more
than the disks.

Post by c***@gmail.com
The 512 MB of RAM doesn't bother
me as I can take the 1280 MB from my U2,

But check the RAM sizes. That 512 MB could be achieved by filling all
the RAM slots, so adding your RAM might not be as easy as you think. You
might have to remove some first.

But for that money, I don't think you could complain.

Are you sure the RAM part numbers are the same? I have not checked, but
many people seem to think things will be OK since they work sometimes.

Post by c***@gmail.com
plus I probably don't need
more than 512 MB. I am tempted by these machines, although they are
right at the top of my price range.

I would give the place I suggested a call. You might do better.

The only thing I would add is that if at a later date you want to add
CPUs or need another spud bracket, the postage can become expensive
compared to the price of buying a machine with all the bits inside.

Post by c***@gmail.com
I just remembered that I have a Symbios SYM8751SP SCSI card which I
salvaged from a scrap PC a couple of years ago. Doing a Google search
leads me to believe that this is the same as Sun part number X5010A,
although I'm unsure how easy it would be to get it working.

If the card you have is the same chipset, it will probably work with no
drivers. But if it does not, you have two anyway - how many SCSI
controllers to you need?

[c***@gmail.com]

Post by Dave (from the UK)
Did you try the place I told you I bought my U 60 from?
I believe they have 2 more and I paid £60 + carriage and VAT with one
CPU 450 MHz CPU, 18 GB disk, 1 GB RAM and floppy.

I just e-mailed him this evening and am waiting for a reply. If I'm
buying an Ultra 60 I think I'm better getting a dual processor machine
(this will be my main machine - my only machine unless I fix the Ultra
2). I've bought low-spec or defective goods in the past and have
sometimes found the upgrade actually costs more than buying a good item
in the first place.

Post by Dave (from the UK)

Post by c***@gmail.com
These are
dual 450 MHz, 512 MB RAM and 2 x 9 GB.

That seems a pretty good spe for £110. And you have two spud brackets,
which are worth £10 each anyway. The brackets are probably worth more
than the disks.

Post by c***@gmail.com
The 512 MB of RAM doesn't bother
me as I can take the 1280 MB from my U2,

But check the RAM sizes. That 512 MB could be achieved by filling all
the RAM slots, so adding your RAM might not be as easy as you think. You
might have to remove some first.

Both have 16 RAM slots. I have 1280 MB in the Ultra 2, so the least I
can end up with in the Ultra 60 is 1280 MB, is that right?

Post by Dave (from the UK)
Are you sure the RAM part numbers are the same? I have not checked, but
many people seem to think things will be OK since they work sometimes.

I'll check.

Post by Dave (from the UK)

Post by c***@gmail.com
I just remembered that I have a Symbios SYM8751SP SCSI card which I
salvaged from a scrap PC a couple of years ago. Doing a Google search
leads me to believe that this is the same as Sun part number X5010A,
although I'm unsure how easy it would be to get it working.

If the card you have is the same chipset, it will probably work with no
drivers. But if it does not, you have two anyway - how many SCSI
controllers to you need?

Probably two external. I have four external devices and was finding
that the chain was getting too long on a single controller.

Best wishes,

Chris

[Jim Carver]

Post by c***@gmail.com

Post by Dave (from the UK)

Post by c***@gmail.com
The 512 MB of RAM doesn't bother
me as I can take the 1280 MB from my U2,

But check the RAM sizes. That 512 MB could be achieved by filling all
the RAM slots, so adding your RAM might not be as easy as you think. You
might have to remove some first.

Both have 16 RAM slots. I have 1280 MB in the Ultra 2, so the least I
can end up with in the Ultra 60 is 1280 MB, is that right?

Chris

Ultra 2 and 60 use the same memory and processors for that matter. The
big jump for most folks is abandoning SBUS for PCI. If you don't have
a huge investment in SBUS now is the time to make the move. As a side
benefit both the drive bays in the 60 are full height. Lots of big cheap
drives available, as opposed to costlier low profiles needed in the 2.
Also both use the same spub brackets. I bought a bare 60 and moved
everything over from a 2 with no problems.

Jim

[Dave (from the UK)]

Post by Jim Carver
Chris
Ultra 2 and 60 use the same memory and processors for that matter. The
big jump for most folks is abandoning SBUS for PCI. If you don't have
a huge investment in SBUS now is the time to make the move. As a side
benefit both the drive bays in the 60 are full height. Lots of big cheap
drives available, as opposed to costlier low profiles needed in the 2.
Also both use the same spub brackets. I bought a bare 60 and moved
everything over from a 2 with no problems.
Jim

If they are the same processors, they run at different speeds. The
processors in the Ultra 60 run at 300, 360 or 450 MHz, whereas I can't
find any mention of an Ultra 2 running in excess of 400 MHz.

The benchmark results submitted by Sun on the www.spec.org web site show
the Ultra 2

http://www.spec.org/permuted.html#U

show no submissions over 400 MHz. Also, the secondary cache on the 400
MHz Ultra 2 is only 2 MB, compared to 4 MB on the Ultra 60's 450 MHz
CPU. Needless to say, these facts result in higher figures on the
benchmarks for the Ultra 60.

[Jim Carver]

Post by Dave (from the UK)

Post by Jim Carver
Chris
Ultra 2 and 60 use the same memory and processors for that matter. The
big jump for most folks is abandoning SBUS for PCI. If you don't have
a huge investment in SBUS now is the time to make the move. As a side
benefit both the drive bays in the 60 are full height. Lots of big
cheap drives available, as opposed to costlier low profiles needed in
the 2. Also both use the same spub brackets. I bought a bare 60 and
moved everything over from a 2 with no problems.
Jim

If they are the same processors, they run at different speeds. The
processors in the Ultra 60 run at 300, 360 or 450 MHz, whereas I can't
find any mention of an Ultra 2 running in excess of 400 MHz.
The benchmark results submitted by Sun on the www.spec.org web site show
the Ultra 2
http://www.spec.org/permuted.html#U
show no submissions over 400 MHz. Also, the secondary cache on the 400
MHz Ultra 2 is only 2 MB, compared to 4 MB on the Ultra 60's 450 MHz
CPU. Needless to say, these facts result in higher figures on the
benchmarks for the Ultra 60.

Agreed, what I was pointing out to Chris was that he can buy a bare 60
and save some money. Don't believe Sun's party line. They only tell you
what they consider a "supported" configuration. My 60 is running a pair
of 200's (has run 167's)and a friends 2 (2 gen board) is running 450's.
You run what you have access to and can afford. It's like the earlier
thread on the IPX. Sun never told us we could run 80megs(32 meg SBUS
daughter card on an IPX or 128 megs (2 32meg cards) on a Sparcstation 2,
using second party sbus cards, because they did not make them and
support them. Likewise that the LX would support 32 meg parity sticks in
the 1st bank, for a total of 128 on the board. Sun only suppied 8's and
16's so the official line was 96 megs max. Remember Sun is in it for the
money, not helping you get the maximum out of older equipment. You may
or may not remember IBM's infamous XT memory upgrade. Everyone thought
at first they were getting a new motherboard and higher density ram.
When in fact the tech were just resoldering a surface mount shunt from
one set of pads to another and putting new chips in your "old" board. I
don't claim to be a Sun guru by any means. Heck till Solaris 2.6 came
out, I could hardly install an operating system. What I do enjoy and
find facinating is the hardware. Being able to bring up a system and
have it run for weeks, months and years and swap component in and out
while the machine was running,WOW, what a concept for a PC guy.(On a
side note, you can remove boards from a running PC, it's installing them
that seems to be the trick =0 )Remember, Sun never told you that the
Symbios boards would work in your Sun. Someone noticed that it had the
same chipset and said "I wonder....". Have some fun!

You might enjoy some of the forums and resources at:

http://www.sunhelp.org/
http://www.sunshack.org/#aussie_sun
http://www.net-kitchen.com/~sah/

[Sunny]

Post by Jim Carver

Post by Dave (from the UK)

Post by Jim Carver
Chris
Ultra 2 and 60 use the same memory and processors for that matter.
The big jump for most folks is abandoning SBUS for PCI. If you don't
have
a huge investment in SBUS now is the time to make the move. As a side
benefit both the drive bays in the 60 are full height. Lots of big
cheap drives available, as opposed to costlier low profiles needed in
the 2. Also both use the same spub brackets. I bought a bare 60 and
moved everything over from a 2 with no problems.
Jim

If they are the same processors, they run at different speeds. The
processors in the Ultra 60 run at 300, 360 or 450 MHz, whereas I can't
find any mention of an Ultra 2 running in excess of 400 MHz.
The benchmark results submitted by Sun on the www.spec.org web site
show the Ultra 2
http://www.spec.org/permuted.html#U
show no submissions over 400 MHz. Also, the secondary cache on the 400
MHz Ultra 2 is only 2 MB, compared to 4 MB on the Ultra 60's 450 MHz
CPU. Needless to say, these facts result in higher figures on the
benchmarks for the Ultra 60.

Agreed, what I was pointing out to Chris was that he can buy a bare 60
and save some money. Don't believe Sun's party line. They only tell you
what they consider a "supported" configuration. My 60 is running a pair
of 200's (has run 167's)and a friends 2 (2 gen board) is running 450's.

I have a couple of Ultra 2s and would like to upgrade the processors.
Any chance you could dig up the part number for those 450s that work in
the U2? I'm not afraid of unsupported configurations :-)

Sunny

[c***@gmail.com]

Dave: one more thing. Has your U60 arrived yet? If so, is it in decent
condition? Let me know how you find it.

Best wishes,

Chris